[The below is a transcript from an interview with Manu_Bhaiya on the Noise Project show. Aired on zeno.fm/berlys-brain-dance]
Firoz Berly 0:02
manu_bhaiya, welcome to the show!
There's this question that usually comes to me when it comes
to what kind of music I play on the Brain Dance radio. And my usual retort is
that I avoid anything that's noisy, and it was during this time that you came
along with your work in noise music. I come across your profile while scouring
through Instagram and I see this solid and attractive visual and aural output
which you were sharing through social media. I became a witness to your work
and your collaboration with other artists. And I could see how the noise music
community in India was unfolding itself in front of me. Your work created this
curiosity; to understand what noise music is about and here I am with you.
Welcome again, Manu!
So, to educate me and all of the people reading this
interview. What is noise music about? And how did you get into it?
manu_bhaiya 1:17
Sure. So two part question - let's attack the first part
first. What is noise music? Noise means a lot of different things to a lot of
different people. You have your textbook definition, which is just your
abrasive sound and doesn't have any sort of rhythm. Noise music can be a
product of the instruments you're using. It can be a product of a conscious
effort at moving away from traditional structures. It can be a conscious effort
at moving away from the auditory quality, like certain genres of songs have.
Now to come to me, what was my journey to noise like? I've
always had a certain fascination with like, really extreme stuff. Like, really
extreme music. I actually started listening to music very late but I quickly
gravitated towards the harshest metal I could find. And I kept going from
there, like further, like, what's the harder thing? What's the harder thing? And
eventually, I found, you know, ‘noise artists’, I find these noise artists from
Japan, from the United States from Europe. And this was like, really harsh
stuff, and really compelling stuff. Because it wasn't stuff I could play when
my friends were at home. It wasn't stuff you can really dance to, but it's it
kind of holds you there. It holds your attention there and transposes you to
this different sort of realm. Its music you would listen to, lying down.
Firoz Berly 2:57
Yeah, there is a
meditative quality to noise music, contrary to what people think. And, before
getting into this conversation with you, I had to do a bit of reading upon
noise music and, and the name Merzbow pops up a lot. Merzbow is like the
vanguard of the noise music community.
manu_bhaiya 3:15
That's true.
Firoz Berly 3:15
And there is this journalist who's writing about a live
concert that he attended on Merzbow. And there was one line in his article
which he said, which still sticks to me, and he said that "It was as
though I was enveloped in a womb and I was born again". After reading that
I could always ascribe a meditative
quality to noise music.
How long has it been since you've ventured into noise music?
manu_bhaiya 3:51
Okay, so I went to my undergrad university (Srishti School
of Design) in Bangalore, at the age of 18. Around the time I was 20, I started
dipping my toes into it. I would not really find my own technique of doing until
like 21 or 22 years. And during that time, I never really took it very
seriously, to be very honest. It was always something fun, you know? Like you
sketch for fun. I used to play around with different techniques of making noise
for fun. But I really started honing my technique last year (2020), because a
lot of things happened in my life, a lot of negative things and the last couple
of years were building up to it. I needed to find some sort of artistic outlet
that I couldn't immediately or instantly connect to my college because it had
to be something that I owned completely. That's when I really started taking it
seriously. And then a couple of things happened. A couple of my friends got
together and we decided to start a band and I started taking my work in noise
music more seriously.
Firoz Berly 5:09
So it was these circumstances that were creating this form
of expression for you. But apart from the circumstances, were there prominent
noise musicians that you would pay attention to? Or did you start paying
attention to noise artists after you started fooling around with noise music?
manu_bhaiya 5:30
Since I was 20-21 years, Merzbow is the one artist that I
paid attention to. So somebody called him most of the greatest crossover
artists, like even if you haven't heard a single noise song, if you haven't
dipped your toes into the genre at all, if you know, if you have any sort of
interest in noise music or noise memes or anything like that, you've probably
seen his face, you've probably heard his name. So yeah, of course, inescapable.
If you're into noise, he's absolutely inescapable. His output is gargantuan. But
my personal favorite album that I've ever heard in my life is called 'Going
Places', by the 'Yellow Swans', who are now a defunct American noise duo. And
they used to be a punk duo, I believe before that, but I could never find any
of their earlier stuff. But they went into noise, I guess, because they found
noise to be more rebellious than punk. And yeah, they produced this album. And
when I heard this album, that was a moment where I decided that this form of
expression is so beautiful, that I need to, you know, listen to more of it? I
need to take it a little seriously, I need to play around with it a little bit.
Because I owe myself, you know, the, the process of dipping my toes into it,
discovering it.
Firoz Berly 6:54
Now about your technique and this is something that's been
very interesting for me. So there are people in the noise community that make
complex instruments to get their noise out. Then there are others who just do
noisy stuff like, you know, banging plates, screeching and howling, and there
are others who take the sounds and then digitally manipulate it. And then there
is another more interesting set of people who, for example, this one artist
called Mike Dando, who recorded the painful screams in the last days of his
mother’s life as she suffered from Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, a disease
similar to Parkinson’s that degrades a person’s mental health. And he used his
mother's dying screams as samples to create his noise album. So the techniques
involved are super unconventional, when it comes to the noise music community.
And I'm like, man, I want to know what techniques manu_bhaiya uses to get his
sounds.
manu_bhaiya 8:02
So I follow a process called 'Data Sonification'. Okay, now,
if you look at your computer, when you look at a JPEG or a WAV file, they are
both just data. But the, you know, the suffix indicates how you interpret that
data, you interpret a JPEG visually, and you interpret a WAV file aurally. Are
they the same? Could they be the same? And yes, so I discovered that with this
software called 'Audacity' (everyone knows about Audacity), you can import raw
data and you can import anything, pretty much and just turn it into, you know,
white noise, abrasive white noise. So I thought, okay, let's import a picture
of my face. Let's import a picture of a building, what sort of sound will it
produce? And yeah, white noise to be sure. But then I thought to myself, you
know, if, if I create an image, which is a series of patterns, you know,
discernible patterns and I import that. Am I going to get some sort of rhythm?
Am I going to get something resembling a pattern? And the answer is yes. So
over time, I really added to my repertoire, and everything is grounded within
that process.
Firoz Berly 9:35
So how do you find these images? Do you look at an image and
then say, "Hey, this image speaks to me and I can see myself converting
this into the music that I would like to play" or do you just pick an
image randomly from some stock website?
manu_bhaiya 9:54
If I realy feel like, not trying or you know, I just want to
say "to hell with all of it!" Yeah, I'll go find a stock image. And
I'll end up working with that also, I will take that seriously. But generally,
let's say if I'm watching a movie and there's a scene that really speaks to me.
I take a screenshot. Or if I'm surfing the internet, I find some sort of image
that somebody used on a meme or a beautiful picture, which is generally not
very conventionally beautiful. Basically yeah, images that speak to me.
Definitely, images that speak to me.
Firoz Berly 10:37
This is one strong form of expression. And I'm, quite
unaware of other people who do this technique as well. Are you the only one out
there? Who's doing this right now, who does Data Sonification?
manu_bhaiya 10:47
Certainly not. There are these different forms of Data
Sonification. I don't think they necessarily even have to involve a laptop. And
I'm pretty sure somebody has done it, somebody is doing it, 100 different
people are probably doing it right now. But I'm not very familiar with anyone.
So of course, that's probably, you know, a limitation of my exposure. I'm still
relatively new.
Firoz Berly 11:12
So we see this mainly in other genres, there are like these
huge Reddit communities or, you know, Tumblr or SoundCloud communities for
techno, drum and bass, all of the electronic dance music supergroups. But for
noise music, is there a community that you can reach out to and share
techniques and knowledge on or is it a very individualistic form of expression?
Do people just surprise each other with the output, rather than the input?
manu_bhaiya 11:45
This has a lot to do with the, I guess, with how I view my
work. My work until very recently, was primarily for me, I never even thought
about how other people would interpret it. And it's only more recently that I
realized other people are engaging with it, and some of them are really liking
it. But as somebody who will always more or less produced for himself, I wasn't
always particularly interested in finding a group. Although I will say that I
did find something quite interesting on Facebook. At some point, I believe
there was a group called 'Harsh Noise Panning Techniques' or something of that
sort. There was another group related to noise memes, which are quite
enjoyable. I find it quite fun. So yeah, I mean, I am not somebody who really
reached out a lot. Maybe I should more.
Firoz Berly 12:50
But compared to other
places, like you know, America and Japan, where I think, there is a more public
discourse on noise music; does India have that kind of community yet? Is it a
growing community of noise music artists, or is it still to be formed out
there?
manu_bhaiya 13:17
Growing? Certainly. I've come across a couple of artists. So
there is 'Hatiyar' and then there is 'Sister'. There is a band from Delhi
called 'Hoirong', who is really, really good. They combine noise with rock
elements. Yeah, so to really answer your larger question, no. And I don't feel
too great about that. I would have hoped that within my lifetime, you know, and
every artist hopes that as he is progressing in his art, this infrastructure
will magically emerge around him that will help prevent that. That does not
happen. The problem, I think, is how we perceive music. Or at least you know,
in this land, we have a very rich history of music, but to talk about modern
music and how we perceive modern music, I think, we aesthetize it too much.
I think in India, you got two camps of artists, the first
camp drifts towards rock music, and certainly, I'm sure some of them are very,
very good. But I feel like they really, really lean into the themes, and the
style of production and presentation that is prevalent in specifically the
United States. I think, to be a little blunt, I think they really, really,
really want to be "white", and the other camp is the exact opposite.
The other guy leans into rap and hip hop, which is again, they do some amazing
things with and there are some really amazing gems out there. But by and large,
I think, in the visual expression, their auditory expression, we really want to
lean into the culture of African Americans, which is a little strange, you
know? I love that culture as much as you and I love the art you put out as as
much as everybody else. But these people aren't really a part of that culture!
So I feel like this stuff like noise will emerge and will grow even further. In
India when people start creating their own identity. Yeah, people should strike
out to find a radically new form of musical expression. You know?
Firoz Berly 15:24
And, you know, I see you as one of those people, for sure.
But what is unfortunate, like you said is, that there is one group that's aping
out other cultures when it comes to their expression. The most unfortunate bit
about this is that there's a lack of spaces where we can actually perform and
play this music. And if you could get the opportunity to play, let's say a
noise set that you made, what kind of a scenario do you have in mind? How would
this concert of yours play out?
manu_bhaiya 16:02
Well..I won't speak for my band. But I will speak for myself
- my ideal concert would be in a space where I am sitting in the center for all
of my friends. They are lying down around me in a very comfortable venue and
I'm projecting some visuals, my glitched-out visuals, onto the ceiling. So they
are lying down, facing up and looking at that these visuals, and they can hear
my sounds surround them from all over. And they enjoy my music as they drift to
sleep. Because I want my music to be something that they enjoy in a liminal
space. They are neither awake nor asleep. That's how I see it.
Firoz Berly 16:42
That's solid and I'm hoping you get to do this sometime. And
really, I would love that. I'd like to be a part of that.
manu_bhaiya 16:47
Yeah. It's a concert where you come in your pyjamas.
Firoz Berly 16:51
Hahaha. Okay, now we're talking about your band. Tell me
about Crumbit.
manu_bhaiya 16:57
So we are called ‘crumbit335’. So my best friend from my
undergrad is Anukool. He is also known as K.o.k.o.Inc, which is his artist
handle. And he does this beautiful, like sugar coated pop music, and his vocals
are absolutely amazing. He is a part of multiple musical projects himself, far
more established musician in his own right than me. He was chilling at my
place. And I was in touch with somebody named Rana Ghose who is a principal
figure in a group called 'REProduce artists'. And they've given me a platform
before, which you know, I'm very grateful for and Rana is a wonderful man and
he's on the lookout for new talent. He's always willing to give people a
chance. So Anukool and I are chilling in my room, we were chatting. And I, you
know, I told him about this. I told him about new spaces coming up and
REProduce and that they're willing to give me a shot, which they've done
before. And it was a wonderful experience. So, "Hey man, do you want to do
something with me?" Anukool is like, "Yeah, why not?" But we
need a name, right? What sort of name should we have? What do we stand for? I
don't know what we stand for? That's a very heavy question. So why don't we
come up with a nonsense name that sounds like our sound. And you know, we're
experimenting a little bit together musically. And we have a crunchy sound. So
let's just think of a crunchy sounding name. And that's why we took up Crumbit.
Now, just to add a little bit of flair, let's add three nonsense, meaningless
numbers at the end of it, that just sort of, you know, roll off the tongue
nicely. And that's where the 335 came from. And we performed with REProduce,
and we started working a little more seriously, especially during wave one of
the lockdown. Some bad things happen in my personal life, and that, you know,
that project really kept me sane. But we were very lucky. Over time, we came
across a third member Dhruv, who's an amazingly talented guitarist, and who
really comes from the sort of musical style of the Thrash movement of the 80s.
But he has since grown like far beyond that also. So we added him to our group.
And together we've been working very, very hard on an EP ('Winged Ribbon'). And
hopefully it will be out in the next two or three months.
Firoz Berly 19:23
How do you plan on releasing music like this? Is Instagram
the preferred channel? Or do you have to resort to larger streaming platforms
like Spotify?
manu_bhaiya 19:37
We will be on all streaming services, we will, absolutely.
We're doing this right. We're putting this everywhere. Because you know, we've
always been a little cavalier about our music. If nobody listens to our music,
that's cool. But as it grows, we're also feeling like, this sounds nice. At
least this sounds nice to us. Maybe if
we take like a little bit of an effort and put it out somewhere and somebody
listens to it, this could mean a lot to somebody else, you know?
Firoz Berly 20:04
How much of a difference does it make if you're releasing
your music through a label? What are your thoughts on this?
manu_bhaiya 20:21
Through a label? I think a label makes a significant
difference. But, the lack of a label should not feel like the end of the world
for an artist. We don't have a label and we're not on anything. Someday, maybe
we will be in that. Could be nice, also. But we'd have to be very sure that a
label doesn't compromise our artistic vision. That's the kind of focal point
here. Because I think we have a sound that's pretty unique. So we want to
maintain that.
Firoz Berly 20:51
Have you guys decided on when your albums are releasing? And
I mean, is it almost done? I mean, I'm a bit curious to hear what it sounds
like.
manu_bhaiya 21:01
So we've completed four songs, we are mixing them, we've
already done one round of mixing on them. But we've decided we want a fifth
song to really wrap things up. So we started work on it. And hopefully by the
time the other four songs are fully mixed, fully fleshed out and the you know,
ready for shipping. We will have made some headway on this final song.
Firoz Berly 21:28
And how do you guys collaborate though? So I believe the
three of you are in different places right now. Is there like an online studio
space where the three of you can jam together? Or do you just compose your
pieces and then send them to each other?
manu_bhaiya 21:50
What we do is it's kind of like this game that the
surrealist painters used to play called 'Exquisite Corpse', which is where they
would like to paint something and then they would give it to a friend and he
would add to it. That's kind of like what we do. I'll start with something, I
lay down the groundwork or Dhruv or Anukool would lay down the groundwork for
some tracks, and then we'll be like, okay, Dhruv should add his guitars to this
first. And then Anukool should wrap things up with some synths and some vocals.
Basically it's a process where a song that exchanges hands, goes from one
person to another person to another person and then there is mixing that is
done.
Firoz Berly 22:39
In noise music is there a mandatory process where you end up
mastering your songs? The reason why I'm asking is because you know, noise is
about coming out of the mould and going for the unconventional.
manu_bhaiya 23:04
Yeah. So for me as an artist, personally, if I'm just making
noise, my own, you know, sort of ambient droney noise, I don't master. I put it
out as it is. And I'm okay with that. But if I'm working with a pop sound and
working with a little bit of a rock sound, there's a little bit of a post rock
sound that's come, to really make all of that shine and not be, you know, eaten
up by the noise, you need to get mastering done. That's a delicate process and
that requires more than one round of mastering actually.
Firoz Berly 23:35
That's interesting. And for this Crumbit335 release that's
going to be happening soon, is there a mastering process that has to be done?
manu_bhaiya 23:50
We finished the first round of mastering. The issues, we
found out that we were gaining clarity, but we're losing grit. So for us, it's
a really delicate balancing act between grit and clarity. And Anukool is
spearheading the mastering process, and is doing a fantastic job. He's really
got an ear for these things. And we're basically giving him feedback on the
mastering process. So yeah, it's all about maintaining grit and clarity, and
that delicate balancing act.
Firoz Berly 24:27
Okay, so I am looking forward to Crumbit335's work. So what
about your plans? Do you have a vision as to how you want to evolve as an
artist or are do you have someone who is influencing the direction that you are
growing in?
manu_bhaiya 24:45
Oh, I think this is a really great time to break away from
influences. For me, personally, what I want to do is take some time and start
learning the keyboard. I think that would really help us in my synthesizer work
which I integrate into my noise music. I think that would help it shine a
little more.
Firoz Berly 25:56
It's nice to see how you're using noise as a as an
instrument to supplement the other sounds as well. You're using noise as an
element to enrich the song in itself. And that's something interesting, you
know, for a listener like me. I'm new to noise music and for someone who's new
to noise music, what albums can people listen to or which festivals can people
attend to get a sense of what noise music is all about.
manu_bhaiya 26:42
Festivals? I really don't know what to tell you this. I
guess there's a lot of underground events that happen all around the world. I
don't know what the coronavirus pandemic has done to that, but yeah, what sort
of artists? I would highly recommend anybody listening to noise music to start
with 'Going Places' by 'Yellow Swans'. I think it's absolutely beautiful. I
think a lot of people don't approach noise, because they have a certain
preconceived notion regarding noise because they heard a short clip from that
one Merzbow album, which by the way, is called 'Pulse Demon'. That's the main
album. But even more so, he has some really much gentler work. He's got
Merzbuddha, Merzbient, you see a pattern right? There is a bunch of other
artists also. Check out Hoirong from Delhi, who is absolutely amazing. Plenty
of talent in Japan and Europe. Just brimming. So just go deep. Just go jump in
the deep end, you know, go jump to the absolute deep end. Yeah.
Firoz Berly 28:00
Thank you for being a part of this. It's been an
enlightening moment for me to have this conversation with you.
manu_bhaiya 28:06
Thank you so much for having me. It's like such a big deal
for me that people will take enough of an interest in me, to want to talk to me
about my art.
Firoz Berly 28:16
You are a big scene in the musical community and I'm looking
forward to what Crumbit335 has to offer as well. And for those who are reading
this right now, you can find Manu at @manu_bhaiya on Instagram. For his band,
Crumbit's work, visit @crumbit335.music. Manu is also an amazing visual glitch
artist and a freelance writer for Stir World and other clients.
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